Snow Leopard: Base 10 Math

[SpookyET]

As you've all probably have heard, Apple have done a boneheaded move to use the standard for the size prefixes (kilo, mega, giga) in Finder, and only in Finder. QuickTime X still reports in base 2. It will say "Data Size: 700MB" in Inspector instead of 734.3MB in Finder. The UNIX utilities still report in base 2. All other applications besides Finder still report in base 2.

I suspect they did this because they were sued for false advertising by stupid users who do not understand the differences between base 2 and base 10. I like standards as much as anybody else, I don't mind the switch to the proper way of using the prefixes, but I despise that they didn't fix their other apps and UNIX utilities. It would have made a stronger push for third party developers to fix their programs too. Traditionally, operating systems have used base-2 because it was easier to calculate.

I request that Transmission is changed to base 10, not only for file sizes, but also network speed (which has always been measured in base-10). For those want to keep base-2 sizes, change the prefixes to KiB, MiB, GiB, and so on. They stand for kibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc. Kib, Mib, Gib stand for kibibit, mebibit, Gibibit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix

Most people think that computers are base-2, but that's not exactly correct. RAM has always been measured in base-2. Hard disk capacity, CPU frequencies, network speeds, bus speeds, and many others, have always been base 10.

[SpookyET]

Many people have been whining about the change of how file sizes are calculated in Snow Leopard, including me, but for different reasons. They think that Apple have been paid by hard disk manufacturers to report sizes in the fake marketing way instead of the proper way . People think that they are being cheated by hard drive manufacturers because their 400GB hard drive holds 360GB of data. Snow Leopard will report the hard drive size as 400GB. Apple have been sued by stupid users who do not comprehend the difference between base-10 and base-2 mathematics. Now, users say that the change in Snow Leopard should not have occurred to appease hard drive manufacturers because computers are binary. I have even seen some to argue that Snow Leopard costs $29 instead of $129 because hard disk manufactures have paid Apple the difference.

The argument is flawed. Those that say that everything in computing is in base-2 are wrong. They say that because they have heard that computers are binary, 0 and 1, and were exposed to base-2 because operating systems have reported numbers in said base for almost half a century. Before they heard that computers are binary, they assumed that kilo meant 1000 and were shocked to learn that it meant 1024. Back in the day, it was easier and faster for computers to calculate in base-2. It stayed that way.

The issue is not the numbers, but the prefixes that accompany said numbers. They should have never used SI prefixes for base-2 mathematics. 1024 is close enough to 1000, but it is not 1000. At the terabyte-size, the difference in base-2 and base-10 is 10%. People are whining that they have been cheated. Their new 1000GB hard drive is only 900GB. Apple have been sued. This is why they changed to the proper way of using the prefixes. As hard disks become larger and larger, more idiots will sue them. READ MORE!

[hippy dave]

you call it a boneheaded move, yet you want transmission to make the same boneheaded move?

i'm not up for a debate about apple's terrible decision, but i hope i can trust the transmission developers not to make this change.

[SpookyET]

you call it a boneheaded move, yet you want transmission to make the same boneheaded move?

i'm not up for a debate about apple's terrible decision, but i hope i can trust the transmission developers not to make this change.

You misunderstood me. I said that they way they did it was boneheaded. They should have announced all devs that it's going base-10. They should have changed all apps, not just finder to base-10.

[hippy dave]

ok, gotcha.

[Jethryn Freyman]

Any word on whether Transmission is going to stick with base 2, or switch to base 10?

Keep in mind that every single torrent site in the world uses base 2 to measure torrent sizes. As does every single other OS.

I can see Apple at least giving the option to choose between base 2/base 10 in the future.

[hippy dave]

i'd ask everyone who's unhappy with the filesize change in finder to complain to apple about it

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Well, I'm really happy about it. Most of the interaction I do with filesizes anyway, is through Finder. So I would like Finder to display base10, since that what harddrive makers is doing, makes more sense to me.

And I would also love a base10 option in Transmission, to reflect that.

[iMacThere4iAm]

I don't like the change. I think it was wrong to make the Finder inconsistent with every other bit of computer software ever. I'd like to request that Transmission stays in base-2 but starts using the correct SI prefixes to avoid the confusion, which is what Apple should have done. Putting in a base-10 option as well would keep everyone happy, I suppose. I think Azureus has had this option for a long time.

Cheers hippy dave, I did use your link to send feedback to Apple.

[hippy dave]

i'm happy today - the internet has provided me with a way to fix the file sizes in finder (and disk utility, and presumably anything else apple may have messed with them in)

if you're happy with base 10 sizes in finder, congrats, but if not, this guy has made a hack to switch the number system:

Rather than replace Finder, why not correct the problem at its source? The size strings are assembled using the Foundation framework, so if you change the base number it uses to calculate sizes from 1000 to 1024 then it will not only change the size displays in Finder to base 2, but also in Disk Utility and probably a few other Apple programs as well. Here's a simple command line utility that does exactly that:
http://files.me.com/brkirch/72zto4

Keep in mind that the usual software disclaimer applies, that is more specifically:

THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY
APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT
HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY
OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM
IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF
ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.

So make sure you have a backup available before running this program (I included a couple safeties in the program so I doubt there will be any problems, but it can't hurt to be on the safe side). It would also probably be a good idea to rerun this program to change the Foundation framework back before installing any software updates.

as he says, back up first - make a copy of Foundation.framework from /System/Library/Frameworks to a safe place. then run his program from the command line, and it should work its magic. the program suggests a system reboot afterward - i haven't done that yet, i just restarted finder (hold alt, right-click the finder icon in the dock, choose "relaunch"). it's working great and i feel like sanity has been restored.

also as he says, you should probably run the program again to reverse the change before installing any os updates.

[hippy dave]

updated:

I made a minor bug fix to the command line utility that switches how Foundation framework calculates sizes, just redownload from:
http://files.me.com/brkirch/72zto4

The bug fix is just to ensure HFS+ compression is reapplied after patching the Foundation framework to base 2; it should save 7546941 bytes, or about 7.2 MiB. If you have already used the earlier version of the command line utility then just run the newer version twice.

...the updated version is at the same url as the old version.

[Raptor007]

Please don't make this change in Transmission! Or if you do, make it optional.

I'm hoping Apple will come to their senses and give us the option to change back to base-2 sizes in the Finder. But even if they don't, I think it would be helpful to keep the sizes in Transmission matched up with those displayed online.

Also, I've got a G5 running 10.4 which is my primary torrent-downloading machine. It would be really stupid if base-10 sizes showed up there.

[Jolly Jimmy]

Please make an option to change back to base 2 in a future update! Base 10 is stupid when every file you download is shown calculated in base 2.